Comments on Zen and the Art of Code Maintenance: Sexual Crimes - are Sexy Clothes to Blame?

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2008-12-24T17:48:00.000+08:00

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dear Safwan, thanks for your elaborate reply, whi...

2006-12-14T13:02:00.000+08:00

dear Safwan,

thanks for your elaborate reply, which is a compliment in itself - i never thought u would take my comments SO seriously.

i'll give u my response soon, but i propose we take it in 2 stages. i'll try to say what i think is wrong with your statistics first, then only move on to the problem with the policy n what we should do about the male. i thank u for your patience.

by the way, could u kindly teach me how to make parts of my comments bold, italic or underline? what r the codes? that might help make my response more readable. sorry, i'm new to html.

thanks, n stay tuned.

p.s - i'm so glad i found u, a formidable foe to debate with. (most of those whom i regard as 'formidable' r not my foes, so i seldom have chance to debate with them...)

Greetings juslo, I am writing to you in response ...

2006-12-13T16:25:00.000+08:00

Greetings juslo,

I am writing to you in response to the commentary you wrote on my blog post ( http://safwank.blogspot.com/2006/12/sexual-crimes-are-sexy-clothes-to.html ) related to the MPKB dress code issue.

Exhibit-A
Let me start off my saying that, contrary to your belief, I am not affiliated with PAS, UMNO, UMYES or any political party. I am not even a registered voter for that matter. And if you feel like it, you can even confirm with SPR on this.

The reason I am telling you this is because it is imperative to note that the views expressed on my blog are mine and mine only, and they are not influenced by my affiliation with any organization, political or otherwise.

1, very good writing, n your language n expressions r a pleasure to read. u r in a totally different class from morons like MENJ (a fellow blogger).

I have to admit that I was a bit ambivalent when reading the above statements. On one hand, you compliment me on my writing, while on another you call someone else a moron. Just because somebody does not agree with your ideas does not mean that he is an idiot. Saying that would only grant other people who disagree with you the right to also call you a moron, and I am sure you would not like that.

2, i've posted some comments about this issue here:
http://ktemoc.blogspot.com/2006/12/virtue-of-kelantan.html
i'll repeat them here, because i would like to see your thoughts.

Thanks for sharing your views.

3, all the 'factors' n 'statistics' u've listed r interesting. since they r only based on deduction, n only serves to give conservative muslim ('comus' in short) men the EXCUSE not to target the men instead, i won't engage u on them point-by-point for now.

I am sorry if I have missed something, but which part of the statistics are based on deduction? All of them were obtained from reliable and credible sources, and I made sure to cross-reference each with at least another unaffiliated publication to determine its accuracy. I would really appreciate it if you could enlighten me by telling me how you would have done it differently.

Also I find it rather unfortunate that you are missing the point of my article by claiming that it is just an excuse not to target men instead. I admit that the article is not perfect, but if you read it carefully with an open and rational mind, you will find that there is no such assertion and that I am not blaming everything on women or trying to control them.

suffice to say that i disagree with u that 'The facts pretty much speak for themselves' simply because they r not FACTS, just your deductions inspired by your own wishful thinking/agenda.

Again, where are the deductions? Can you provide more reliable facts and figures that indicate otherwise, or are you going to keep on claiming that they are mere deductions without providing any counter claim or compelling argument? Calling something a "deduction" more than once does not make it so.

my point in general is that b that as it may, it's MISGUIDED to target dressing, because u r not really dealing with THE SOURCE of the problem.

I agree with you that we must first tackle the root of the problem, and I believe that education plays a really pivotal role in shaping a civil society. But I also happen to believe that dress code nevertheless plays an important part. In the following words, I will attempt to highlight why this is the case.

Islam is not merely a religion, it is an all-encompassing way of life. It prescribes a comprehensive framework that covers all aspects of life such as education, upbringing, human relations, economy, law and enforcement. Therefore Islam, as a way of life, has to be practiced in a holistic way in order to achieve the intended goals, not suited and customized to one's personal needs and desires. You can think of it as a complex biological system in which different parts of the system work together in a harmonious, consistent and efficient manner. If one part of the system fails, others may be able to sustain its life only to a certain point in time, after which the whole system will start to disintegrate and gradually perish.

Likewise you can instill noble moral values and virtues in your children, tell them to differentiate between right and wrong, and shower them with love and affection, and all these efforts may be of little use if the rest of the environment is not conducive enough for their development. Therefore it is important not to play down external factors that are undoubtedly significant in shaping an individual's character. These external factors may include things like peer influence, the media and even dress code. Moreover, this is particularly important during the early adolescent stage where youngsters are only beginning to discover and explore their sexuality, the result of which will have a lasting effect on what type of individuals they will turn out to be when they grow up.

4, just because something could cause a crime, doesn't mean we should ban them. u should only ban something if the benefits of the banning outweighs the costs.

I cannot agree more, and I do share the same sentiment. However, I fail to see how your idea that dress code does not matter applies in this case. If anything, putting on sexy clothes bring more harm than good, as the cited studies have shown. Moreover, covering up and dressing modestly are all part of my religion, and as a follower it is my duty to adhere to it. In fact, Islam is not the only religion that promotes this, most other religions also do. And as many research studies have shown, including those that I have cited in the article (and there are many others if only you bothered to do your homework beforehand), people in different societies, liberal or otherwise, generally have a negative perception of persons who are sexily clothed in public.

I would really appreciate it if you could refer to the related studies conducted by Thornhill and Palmer, the American Medical Association and the Psychology of Women Quarterly, among others. This is to ensure that you do not continue to humiliate yourself by giving baseless comments, none of which is based on empirical evidence of any sort.

while many women got raped, THOUSANDS got KILLED by cars, cholestrol, fat - but why r we not banning those harmful things?? y pick on women's dress?!

The real question is, why not pick on women's dress? Again, I have to reiterate how unfortunate it is that you failed to grasp the whole idea presented in my article. The whole point is that we are not doing justice by claiming that women who are provocatively-clothed are completely and utterly guilt-free when they fall victim to sexual crimes. That is not to say that I am trying to find an excuse to divert the attention to the victims themselves, rather it is to highlight the significance that dress code has in solving the issue.

Furthermore, why do we have to look at the RM500 as an intolerable punishment? If anything, it is minuscule compared to what the rapists have to face if they are convicted, which spells jail time and whipping in Malaysia's case. If you would try to open up your mind for a moment, and look at it from a different perspective, it will dawn on you the fact that the fine is meant as a deterrent, not a punishment.

Let me also state that Islam prescribes really harsh punishments to perpetrators of sexual crimes, which can amount to stoning to death in the extreme cases. But it is again absolutely unfortunate that when an Islamic government tries to implement such a strict law, it is met with fierce resistance not only among its citizens but also from the so-called human rights activists all over the world.

So what are these Islamists to do? It would seem that whatever they choose to do, people who are habitually opposed to their ideals will remain what they are; fierce oppositions bent on the ultimate destruction of Islam. When the Islamists attempt to punish the rapists with the harshest punishment possible, they are labelled as barbaric and inhumane. And when they try to impose a small fine meant as a deterrent on women who are dressed indecently, they are nevertheless labelled as outdated, shallow and despicable.

in other words, u r trying to control A's MIND by controlling B's behaviours, forgetting that no matter what u try (even if u impose totalitarian mind-control), the human MIND is the ONLY part of the human body which is NOT subject to any control. PAS should fucking realise that, the earlier the better for them. so do YOU.

This is a fallacy coming from a shallow mind clouded by prejudice and refusing to look at the bigger picture. The whole idea is to have an all-encompassing framework upon which a civilization is based. It is not solely about the dress code, it is also about imposing harsh punishments on rapists, educating the people about the proper rules of conduct and providing a conducive environment for children and adults alike. Education alone will not be effective without the necessary enforcement that accompanies it, for there will always be delinquents and non-conformists who will attempt to flout the laws no matter how educated they are.

And for the record, using profanity does not make one's opinion more intelligent and agreeable. Rather, it only serves to demonstrates one's lack of self-restraint and inability to express himself in a civilized manner. Not to mention how the use of profanity clouds one's judgement and drives him away from the reality and further into an emotional roller coaster.

just for your info, only your kind of people think that the bad guy should not b solely blamed. other civilizations believe that that guy MUST.

Is that really so? Do you speak on behalf of all civilizations in the universe, ex-Malaysia? If so, I truly and humbly apologize for my misgiving.

I am not going to do anything more, other than stressing how crucial and important it is to do some homework first before making a statement.

also, u live in a funny world. in your world, all men r BEASTS, who 'are like horny dogs, waiting for a bitch on heat to wander into their orbit'!!

I have to admit that, while I do not speak for every Muslim, this is truly a fantasy world far detached from the minds of all devout Muslims through out the world. Have you ever considered the fact that such a world actually exists within the realm of your subconscious mind instead? Just a food for thought.

your rant about not allowing women to control their bodies as they wish n mocking of gender equality only tells me that u r a male chauvinist, control-freak. (by the way, MOST women r NOT SLUTS, n they won't just jump on the chance of committing zina whenever they r not 'controlled'. but for u n your folks, maybe 'women are vixens who flirt and flaunt themselves until men are forced to commit violent acts upon them'.)

Well let us put your understanding of male chauvinism to test. In the article, I am merely highlighting, without singling out any gender, how both men and women have a role to play in the struggle against sexual crimes. I also touch upon the issue of the overzealousness portrayed by many women's rights activists in their pursuit of gender equality. While the perpetrators' blame is a given and the punishment meted out harsh, I argue that we should not neglect the possibility that indecently-clothed women may also contribute to the rise of sexual crimes, albeit in a small but meaningful way.

So now you are saying, using deductive reasoning, that:

A: I am a man who argues that both men and women have different roles to play, and they are both equally vital to the development of a society.
B: All male male chauvinists believe that men are undeniably and utterly superior to women.
Conclusion: I am a male chauvinist.

All sane and rational denizens of the world can bear witness to how flawed and completely twisted this piece of logic is.

FUNDAMENTALLY, IT'S ABOUT MALE CHAUVINISM. comus men want to find a way to control their women, because they cannot tahan seeing their PROPERTIES from being EXHIBITED in public. so, they find a grand 'safety excuse' as a front to help protect their MALE EGO, even though it cheapens women n have to call them MEAT in the process.

it's as simple as that. stop giving us all the bullshit n just admit it.

Again the flawed reasoning about male chauvinism.

I cannot help but wonder which is more nonsensical, or in your own word, "bullshit":

1. Arguments based on flawed logic unsupported by empirical evidence of any sort, or
2. A thesis based on plenty of empirical evidence accompanied by compelling arguments.

Take your pick.

by the way, all rapists would GAZE at their female targets before they decide whom to rape, right?

so, it actually makes more sense, n is SAFER for women, to FINE all MEN who GAZE at women, don't u think?!?! that'll also comply with the verse in the Qur'an which asks men to 'lower your gaze' at the same time.

Well actually I share the same sentiment with you on this matter. In fact, I think it is an excellent idea! Oh, do remember to bring this up to your Member of Parliament (MP) for the next parliament session. I wish the government all the best in implementing and reinforcing it.

grow up, PAS men.

1. About yours truly being a "PAS man", please refer to Exhibit-A.
2. I cannot help but wonder who is the one in a desperate need of growing up:
(a) One who resorts to profanity, uses capital letters and multiple exclamation marks every other sentence, calls someone who does not agree with his ideals a moron and uses flawed logic to present his argument, or
(b) One who argues in a rational and civilized manner by providing plenty of empirical evidence to support his arguments, while not neglecting to abstain from profanity and calling other people names.

hey bro, 1, very good writing, n your language n ...

2006-12-11T15:33:00.000+08:00

hey bro,

1, very good writing, n your language n expressions r a pleasure to read. u r in a totally different class from morons like MENJ.

2, i've posted some comments about this issue here:
http://ktemoc.blogspot.com/2006/12/virtue-of-kelantan.html
i'll repeat them here, because i would like to see your thoughts.

3, all the 'factors' n 'statistics' u've listed r interesting. since they r only based on deduction, n only serves to give conservative muslim ('comus' in short) men the EXCUSE not to target the men instead, i won't engage u on them point-by-point for now.

suffice to say that i disagree with u that 'The facts pretty much speak for themselves' simply because they r not FACTS, just your deductions inspired by your own wishful thinking/agenda.

however, the rest of my comments r based on the assumption that u r CORRECT that sexy dressing is AN IMPORTANT factor contributing to sex crimes against women.
my point in general is that b that as it may, it's MISGUIDED to target dressing, because u r not really dealing with THE SOURCE of the problem.

4, just because something could cause a crime, doesn't mean we should ban them. u should only ban something if the benefits of the banning outweighs the costs.

while many women got raped, THOUSANDS got KILLED by cars, cholestrol, fat - but why r we not banning those harmful things?? y pick on women's dress?!

oh, maybe cars r useful. but this logic is like arguing, 'stop using cars to prevent accidents, it's SAFER that way'. or 'ban arts/drawing in schools to avoid students from ever thinking about the possibility of drawing naked women on paper. it's SAFER that way'.

or better still, 'let's ban all civilization to prevent civilization from being destroyed. it's SAFER that way!!!' i think that's PAS's driving mission all along anyway.

but bad cholestrol n bad (saturated?) fat DEFINITELY is UNHEALTHY, there's no 'solely' or 'major' or 'mainly' when it comes to these unhealthy elements, they r ABSOLUTELY bad (i'm not a scientist, so if my example above is wrong, forget the particular example, just deal with my logic of something that is definitely bad) - y don't we BAN them?!?!

better still, a guy's PENIS is THE CAUSE of all rapes, y don't we BAN PENISES?!?!

if u ask me, IT'S ACTUALLY SAFER TO LOCK UP ALL MEN'S PENISES, N HAND OVER THE KEYS TO THEIR WIVES/MOTHER/FEMALE RELATIVES ONLY!!! so y don't we do THAT instead?!?!?! u can also prevent consensual zina too, not just non-consensual rape!!!

ask all men to wear PENIS LOCKS which allows them to urinate but not sexual intercourse!!!

while u cannot deny that wearing sexy dress is ONLY A factor, MISUSE of penises IS THE factor for rape. y is it ok to ask women to put on clothings they don't like but not ok to ask MEN to put their penises in clothings/locks THEY DON'T LIKE?!?!

target the SOURCE of the problem, not the VICTIMS!!!

5, what we have here is a FUNDAMENTALLY MISGUIDED approach to solve this problem - which does not focus on the SOURCE of the problem (the RAPIST'S MIND/THOUGHT), but targetting the VICTIMS instead.

in other words, u r trying to control A's MIND by controlling B's behaviours, forgetting that no matter what u try (even if u impose totalitarian mind-control), the human MIND is the ONLY part of the human body which is NOT subject to any control. PAS should fucking realise that, the earlier the better for them. so do YOU.

6, "If you were carrying thousands of ringgit in cash while walking on the streets of Kuala Lumpur, you would never leave it dangling in your pocket... Otherwise, it is preposterous to place the blame solely on the bad guy if you get robbed or mugged."

i note the qualifying word, 'blame SOLELY'.

just for your info, only your kind of people think that the bad guy should not b solely blamed. other civilizations believe that that guy MUST.

n i don't think even the Qur'an say u can blame the property owner for theft to his property, or women for rape. YOU PEOPLE R INVENTING THIS TO GIVE EXCUSE FOR MEN NOT TO TAKE THE BLAME FULLY.

also, u live in a funny world. in your world, all men r BEASTS, who 'are like horny dogs, waiting for a bitch on heat to wander into their orbit'!!

Metaphor hides mufti's real message
Caroline Overington
October 28, 2006
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20658335-601,00.html

u think that men r OBSESSED with sex, n also all women who dress up pretty.

but what u don't realise is, by saying that kind of thing, u r basically telling us how YOU, n those of YOUR FOLKS who think women r MEAT, stand in your sexual maturity.

if men in kuala lumpur can control their lust n wouldn't even touch a 'dressed-to-provoke' foxy sexy lady, but men in kota baru can't control themselves n have to ask the WOMEN to prevent themselves from being raped/violated BY MEN - WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT MEN IN KOTA BARU??? don't u think this law actually INSULTS the level of decency of all kota baru men??? (because it makes them sound like horny, sex maniacs who r obsessed with sex!!)

6, your rant about not allowing women to control their bodies as they wish n mocking of gender equality only tells me that u r a male chauvinist, control-freak. (by the way, MOST women r NOT SLUTS, n they won't just jump on the chance of committing zina whenever they r not 'controlled'. but for u n your folks, maybe 'women are vixens who flirt and flaunt themselves until men are forced to commit violent acts upon them'.)

at the end of the day, given how RIDICULOUS n MISGUIDED the whole logic of targetting one object to control the other's mind, let's ADMIT it - this is not really about 'rape' n 'decency' etc.

FUNDAMENTALLY, IT'S ABOUT MALE CHAUVINISM. comus men want to find a way to control their women, because they cannot tahan seeing their PROPERTIES from being EXHIBITED in public. so, they find a grand 'safety excuse' as a front to help protect their MALE EGO, even though it cheapens women n have to call them MEAT in the process.

it's as simple as that. stop giving us all the bullshit n just admit it.

7, by the way, all rapists would GAZE at their female targets before they decide whom to rape, right?

so, it actually makes more sense, n is SAFER for women, to FINE all MEN who GAZE at women, don't u think?!?! that'll also comply with the verse in the Qur'an which asks men to 'lower your gaze' at the same time.

wouldn't THAT b the ultimate solution?? or is your MALE EGO too strong to blame YOURSELF for the problems???

grow up, PAS men.

Great analysis, brother. Jazakallahu khayran. We n...

2006-12-10T13:14:00.000+08:00

Great analysis, brother. Jazakallahu khayran. We need people like you in the blogosphere to deal with these Liberals anyway.

Wassalam.

- MENJ

Well said !We need people like you to kick da ass ...

2006-12-08T19:52:00.000+08:00

Well said !

We need people like you to kick da ass of those prejudist.

I hope you could go to Google Blogsearch and type " kelantan ".
Find any recent blog entry that speaks ill of the MPKB's ruling and share your facts and figures with them.
( Btw, I doubt they would agree since they already got their mind poisoned by the Secularist & Liberalist with the Hadhari thing )

Still, there are many bloggers out there who hold wrong perceptions of this matter and please, kick them in the ass if you have to ... err.. literally speaking, of course.

May the Force be with you.

p/s : I am currently doing my part too.

your posts has always been insightful..

2006-12-08T09:42:00.000+08:00

your posts has always been insightful..